Estelle Buckland, Commercial and Residential Designer

When Estelle Buckland told me that she designed buildings to tell stories, I was intrigued.

With over 15 years experience in spatial planning and freelance interior design, Estelle has worked on everything from huge, commercial co-work spaces to creating the most imaginative puppet theatre out of a cardboard box with her children.

A true believer in getting to know people and put them first, Estelle is someone whose creativity seems to run through every fibre of her life.

In this interview we talk about the joy of a good team, why creative people hate talking about money and how tiny ideas can keep you going when things get tough.

Estelle, you once told me that when you design buildings you design them to tell stories. Can you tell me a bit about that?

Yes, I really love buildings and I really love people and there's so much to both. Everything has got quirks and history and character so I think when you're designing you've got to make sure that the building works well, practically, but you've also got to make sure that the good things about the character of a person shine through in that space too.

It's almost like the relationship between the two is much more than just a person in a building or things looking a certain way. If you get to know the client you can show their character and there’s more depth to it all. Getting to know the people I work with is my favourite thing. 

If you walk into someone's home I like it to shout that it's theirs, not just a home that's been designed to the latest trend. It’s something a bit deeper that tells you something about them.

You get lots of different companies that offer something similar but each one has different values or a different style and I think that it's really important for those things to come through in an interior. It’s not just a mixture of, you know, furniture and colours. It needs to be a little bit more than that. 

I can't even get my head around how you would translate the things that people care about into, say, the angle of a building. How do you even go about that process?

I think that probably through experience you learn what a building can do. They'll be practicalities like where the services can go and it isn't always a choice. Sometimes because of windows or structural constraints the layout helps to plan itself because of those restrictions. It's almost like a puzzle that you're just trying to solve for the client. Once you achieve that you can start to bring in other elements. 

One of my favourite projects was with an agency at a time when every brand agency wanted bright white and clinical. And they were so different. I remember traipsing round the East End, all around Brick Lane, looking at buildings that really needed some love. They were in pretty bad shape. One was just completely covered in ivy but they were so different and the team wanted to show who they were through that kind of space. 

We spent lots of time sourcing different bits of furniture and having things made for them because it fitted with the brand. We found all these old cinema chairs that had been salvaged and sitting in some guy’s loft and we brought them in. Then there was a huge kitchen table, so everyone could come together.

The moment you walked into that space, you could feel who they were.

Do you like the restrictions and the boundaries of the building or is it annoying?

Yeah, I like it. I think it’s the complexities that I love. I want to make things work for people.  I love the planning stage and I find the restrictions are really interesting. There's just a big sense of achievement when you've made everything fit in and you know that you've met the brief. You're excited to show the client how they can live in that space. It’s a good part of my job.

You made a charming little puppet theatre out of cardboard with your kids in lockdown and I wanted to ask you about that because it suggested to me that a building and a story were coming together in the context of playing with your family. What was going on?

Well, we do love stories. I feel lucky that I've got two children who like stories because I think I would find that hard if they didn't, if they weren't engaged in reading. 

Throughout lockdown they had little storybook clubs. As homeschool was finishing in the afternoon, they read a story and I videoed it and we sent it out to our friends with young children. 

It was great because I think homeschool put so many different pressures on carers and children and it felt lovely that my daughter was reading and doing it in a fun way where she got to be a bit dramatic. 

But I think in all honesty, the puppet theatre was actually about boxes. We just love repurposing a box and I think that that probably comes from me loving to work in buildings. We make all kinds of things out of cardboard. If they spy a cardboard box it stays here forever. 

It’s interesting talking about children being at home this year and I know we both found it hard to keep working during lockdown. What did you do when you just didn't feel creative? 

I think I was lucky. The work on the commercial side went quiet but I had residential projects that were local to me so it was easier to be around for my kids. 

We started to do more arts and crafts and we painted together and wrote letters to our friends that we couldn't see. And then I started to get messages back asking why I wasn’t selling my drawings and suddenly this whole other little project appeared which was without any pressure. 

I put a few drawings on Instagram and thought that would be that, but all of a sudden I was getting enquiries all over the place. I was just something that I did because I wanted to keep being creative and it kept my brain ticking and kept me motivated when I could have been overwhelmed with home school.

I’ve accidentally found this thing I love and the stories behind some of the orders have made me cry. Being stuck at home when we couldn’t go out much and seeing people want to reach out and connect is very moving. When you’re used to big, commercial building projects, just to bring someone a little bit of joy like that has been very liberating. 

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I imagine your industry is still quite male-dominated. What barriers are there for women to get into spatial planning?

There are lots of female designers but pretty much throughout my whole career, if I’m sat in a meeting room for a project it will be mostly all male. But I suppose the challenges are what you make of them. 

Sometimes it can be quite daunting if you want to challenge something or stand up and say there’s a certain way to do something that you believe in. That can be a barrier but I think you have to be able to value yourself and know your worth and look for the way to work around problems. 

Projects vary. You might have a team that's really tightly knit together and it feels harder to go in but other times it's more diverse and everybody's there for the client and the project. One of the best projects I worked on was a really balanced team and I think it does affect the dynamic. 

Sometimes female voices can be a bit quieter and women sit back and that’s the thing that needs to change. If you get challenged on a design aspect you need to be strong to stand up and advocate for the client to make sure the outcome is good for them. If you have technical abilities to fall back on then it helps because sometimes people are really good but they just lack confidence so their voice isn’t heard. It needs to be heard to make the project the best it can be. 

This is like the perfect segue to my to my next question which is about when we worked together and I just found it so refreshing when we talked about money. I realised that what we charge is tied up with value and confidence too. Why do creative people hate talking about money so much?

When I start an interiors project with somebody and we're looking at the budget there are costs for essential things, like plumbing, that can be quite substantial but you don’t see obviously where you spent the money. 

I always think that's the same as a creative person. There’s a lot of value there that is invisible; our experience and creativity and the skill set that we have. It just isn't always the easy thing to see, it’s sort of hidden within us. When I give someone a design concept they don’t know about all my knowledge of building regulations for example. It’s not obvious. But it all went into the work that I did and you have to put a value on that. 

Probably, with having children, your mindset changes too. If you're not paid properly for a project, you could be spending that time with your family. When time pressures are so high and you're setting that time aside to work, you should be paid properly for it. 

Of course it’s tricky because your working relationship is with people and you want it to be good, not awkward. You never want to leave them unhappy. At the same time, you need to be quite strict with yourself. 

I like to offer a fee proposal where I can detail everything that I'm going to do for that fee. When I send it over as a proposal, not speaking directly, it takes some awkwardness out of things and I can get on with the work.

What do you think the biggest lesson is that you’ve learnt in doing what you do?

It’s about having confidence again and valuing yourself. Don’t hide away and be able to talk about your skill out loud. Listen to other people and know that you’ve got the experience, you've got the skill set. Believe in that. 

To talk to Estelle about a commercial or residential design project, find her here.

And find her lovely side project of drawings and people here.